Where's that damn authentic UFO photo?
Everyone -- and I mean everyone -- wants a clear (distinct), preferably close-up of a seemingly authentic UFO, even Avi Loeb, that interesting scientific avatar.
But none has ever been taken, in all the years of the appearing phenomena when cameras were extant.
But let me note this:
George Adamski, for all his chicanery, provided, if they were real instead of concocted, the essential flying saucer photo that has become the archetypal design for every bogus UFO, photographed or described by UFO witnesses:
Some visitors to this blog like the Heflin photo(s):
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.552.6587&rep=rep1&type=pdf
So, there are some interesting UFO photos, a few concocted, (almost) obviously, but intriguing in ways that current phone camera photos are not.
RR
posted by RRRGroup at
Saturday, March 12, 2022
18 Comments:
Correction. The Ann Druffel (and several co-authors) article that you link does not contain ANY "debunking material." Just the opposite. It offers a detailed photo analysis that establishes beyond a reasonable doubt that Rex Heflin's 4 Polaroid snaps are authentic. Now precisely WHAT the object is (or was) has never been determined.
By
Dominick, at Saturday, March 12, 2022
Dominick:
You read the whole PDF, yes? It's riddled with anti-Heflin broadsides: McDonald particularly.
While Druffel et al. come to his defense, and accept the photos as genuine, producing a later paper enhancing their conclusion, what I liked about their paper was the insertion of those questions that others had about the photos.
You seem desperate to find belief, to the point of blind spots about any questionable aspects that try to degrade a UFO account.
As I wrote: "There has been debunking material on the Heflin offering." It's in the pro-Heflin paper by Druffel itself and also elsewhere which I didn't insert to keep the authenticity angle of the photos intact.
You've read the railroad toy accusation, yes? This came from a Reddit site:
"Is there anybody that DOES NOT believe that Rex Heflin's UFO is a miniature train wheel? He was a huge enthusiast & had them all over his basement."
You are too quick to defend UFO items that have questions -- legitimate questions -- about them.
My effort here, at this blog, is to keep the topic fair -- by showing all sides of an issue, as best as I can locate all sides.
I even question my own conjectures, as Daniel recognizes.
Your push to accept Doty or the ET answer to UFOs smacks of that bromide: I want to believe.
Faith is a wonderful thing. It's not truth or fact necessarily. just a nice thinking mode, not intellectual, but nice.
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
Rich, you are leaving readers with an incorrect impression of the thrust of the article you link, of my statements concerning it, and certain insinuations about Doty and ET which I certainly don't hold.
McDonald, ever the scientist, was skeptical about several aspects of the Heflin sighting (especially the 4th photo) BUT he was not privy to the most recent digital re-analysis of all 4 photos. What is definitive in the re-analysis is the appearance of "black particulate matter" trailing the UFO in several of the photos. Importantly, that "matter" also appeared to match the "smoke ring" material in Photo 4, which then links 4 to the other 3 pictures. My best guess is that McDonald's skepticism would have evaporated entirely had he been alive to review that r-eanalysis.
The other aspect of McDonald's skepticism concerned what he believed to be different weather patterns in the 4 photos. The re-analysis demonstrates the weather (clouds, etc,.) in all four photos was the same. Also, as an aside, no "string" or any other support apparatus was detected in any of the pictures. The "train wheel" guys have never offered explanations for anything mentioned above. Talk about having "faith."!
Was this ET? Probably not; yet the craft in the pictures has never been seen before or since (to my knowledge). Heflin suggested it was some experimental craft out of the local Marine air base. Could be.
Now as to the Doty affair. Am I "pushing to accept Doty"? Hardly. What I want is someone with far more "intelligence" experience than me (or you) to evaluate Doty's credentials and the very essence of his story. Did he actually work for the AF in several SAPs concerning UFOs? Would he have had access to very sensitive UFO information with national security implications? And is it reasonable that he would/could now share that information with the general public?
If we actually want to solve the UFO mystery (and sometimes I wonder if people here really want to do that) then we must take an alleged whistle-blower like Doty seriously and evaluate his primary claims. You say you "know" he was not an "insider." Well, my friend, HOW do you know that? Please tell us so that we will all know.
By
Dominick, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
If I wrote that I "know" Doty wasn't an insider, I wrote incorrectly, Dom.
For me, and Kevin Randle, and others, Doty is tainted goods. I don't have time for tainted anything.
As for the Heflin fall-out material, there is plenty but you can see, by reading me carefully, I'm giving hesitant credibility to Heflin's photos. You're not seeing that apparently.
I didn't link the model train hypothesis, which is rather good or any other anti-Heflin thesis, liking Druffel's et al. paper, for its seeming objectivity.
You seem a bit anxious to get some certification of a UFO explanation, going so far as to take Doty as a possible reliable source.
That's akin to Sentes and Halperin adulating Strieber, a grand intellectual faux pas that almost makes me sick.
But there it is....and since I respect your viewpoints, as addled as some are -- the ETH preference -- I always will present your comments or stance.
You are not rabid, but moderate in accepting my own addled views. That's the kind of discussions I like offering to readers here.
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
I reviewed the Heflin photos some time ago. They are definitely fake (based on simple parallax analysis). But there was interesting stuff going on nearby... so again the same wilderness of mirrors??
https://web.archive.org/web/20190315183826/http://thecid.com/ufo/uf00/uf1/001816.htm
By
The Lost Guide, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
I reviewed the Heflin photos some time ago. They are definitely fake (based on simple parallax analysis). But there was interesting stuff going on nearby... so again the same wilderness of mirrors??
https://web.archive.org/web/20190315183826/http://thecid.com/ufo/uf00/uf1/001816.htm
By
The Lost Guide, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
Rich:
Doty may be tainted goods to you, Kevin, & others, but People and their circumstances can change over time, and Doty "HAS" you must admit, made some outstanding comments on dead ETs & UFO that has caught Dominicks attention that I also agree with.If Doty is truthful in the interview with Dr.Steven Greer,Your stance on Doty, may be missing out on what UFOs are all about!?..
What Dominick wants, is someone with far more "intelligence" experience than he (or you) to evaluate Doty's credentials and the very essence of his story..
I & Dominick, would have thought Kevin Randle,would have picked up on this and taken it farther, than he has....BUT NO!..
You know,this is NOT, the first time,I've heard this story that Doty talks of in his interview.I have heard identical stories, in other interviews with different people over the years,so it's nothing new to me...........
By
Daniel, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
Daniel (and Dominick):
I've requested views of Doty at UFO UpDates, the UFO group with a bevy of the most credible and intelligent UFO people, long-timers with supreme cachet.
They are responding and I'll be putting their evaluations online here shortly.
You, Dan, and Dominick are so far afield about Doty that I'm shocked at your stance -- both of you. It's intellectual idiocy. Sorry, but it is.
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
I thought the 1870s photo was a hiking tool of some kind set in a nearby snowbank. So, another example that fails the headline of this topic.
Rich, you ran a story a while back about a guy that took a series of clear photos of a nuts and bolts flying disc (time period '60s or '70s?), that have never been debunked. So there are some snaps in the public domain that ring truer than others.
By
Ron, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
Intellectual idiocy:)???
How so, when your stance is only based on Doty being tainted goods,Hahahaha:).........
By
Daniel, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
I don't wish to imply you or Dom are less than intelligent, Danny.
But in this matter, you both have taken a position that is intellectually wanting, idiotic.
Doty is so degraded by his past, that no sensible person would have him to their house for dinner.
Doty has behaved like a sociopath -- need I provide the clues for that assessment?
Would you let him take your kids to the zoo or your dog to the vet, without worry?
It's idiotic to persist in trying to provide hum garlands. He's tainted goods, a bad person at core, in my estimation, and that of others.
See the responses from the UFO UpDate crowd, which I've put online, with more to come.
Since Kevin's assessment didn't convince either of you fellows and my view is seen as a shit, maybe you both will take a consensus batch seriously. I hope so.
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
Rich:
(1)-> Doty is so degraded by his past, that no sensible person would have him to their house for dinner.
(2) Doty has behaved like a sociopath -- need I provide the clues for that assessment? <-
Rich, for what it's worth, I do not personally know or care about Doty.I just don't know him, to agree to the things you accuse him of, only agreeing with Dom: on the comments Doty has made in his interview, but since you've gone as far as you have about a man I do not know, maybe for the sake of your readers you -- might provide the clues for that assessment you talk of, YES?.........
By
Daniel, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
Dan:
See the post above for links to material that pertains.
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
And Dan, the list of sites I put on here the other day asking if the links were about the Doty under discussion.
You've searched out internet links about the guy that you want to promote and laud, yes?
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
Rich:
-> You've searched out internet links about the guy that you want to promote and laud, yes? <-
lol; Correction, Rich. I was in agreement of Dominicks comment; to evaluate Doty's credentials and the very essence of his story, nothing to do with promoting him, as I see it.Where did you get that idea? It's gone from "doubt"
to "promotion" with praise; Hahahaha..Hohoho..Oooh forgive me:)............
By
Daniel, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
What are Doty's credentials, Dan?
That's the question you boys are seeking an answer to.
He has credentials, but a cop may have credentials, yet can be a "dirty cop" as you know.
The overview of people I respect as UFO investigators/researchers think Doty is a cad, a bad guy, down deep.
He may have some good qualities and excellent credentials, but they are corrupted by his behavior, which is documented, as you've read surely.
Why you and Dm are hanging tough with this guy baffles me.
Like Bryan Sentes and David Halperin liking Strieber, it's perverse. Intellectually so.
I'm hanging on this longer than I normally would as you, Dan and Dominick, are two of my pals here.
I'm cutting you both some slack. If this Doty nonsense came from someone else, I'd hang them out to dry.
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
Rich:
-> What are Doty's credentials, Dan?<-
The truth would be more interesting..
_> He has credentials, but a cop may have credentials, yet can be a "dirty cop" as you know.<-
Yes!..
-> Why you and Dm are hanging tough with this guy baffles me.<-
I'm only agreeing with Dom:..More information is needed..
-> I'm hanging on this longer than I normally would as you, Dan and Dominick, are two of my pals here.<-
And I too, enjoy talking with you,Rich..You see; everyone has an opinion, but that does not make them correct in their opinion,only their personal view.It may be a lie, or it may be the truth.Credentials are only part of the uniform for which their authority stands, but if one is a truthfull minded authority, then the credentials enhance for a better result..............
By
Daniel, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
See my latest Doty posting Daniel, at the top here.
It's exhausting trying to verify a person's validity, especially a person as controversial as Richard Doty.
I really wanted to talk about the photos presented but Dominick went off-topic and here we are.
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Sunday, March 13, 2022
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