UFO Conjectures

Friday, August 02, 2019

Crazy talk!

Copyright 2019, InterAmerica, Inc.
Bill Murphy, at The Anomalist, posted this link and comment Friday [8/2/19] about MJ Banias’ book UFO People:

David Halperin attempts to understand a set of experiences in MJ Banias, "The UFO People" - The Case of Amy. This is a complicated story with a brave protagonist and no easy answers. It also features Banias' challenging "guiding principle" that "the UFO as object is fundamentally less important than the interpretation and the individual who experienced the phenomenon." [Italics mine]

That comment I’ve highlighted is madness – utter madness!

When you go to the zoo to see a giraffe, do you concentrate on the other people looking at the giraffe? Do you go to the Indy 500 to study the crowd also there? Do you go to the ballet to see the dancers or to view the other ballet fans?

You get it. It’s not the observers or visitors that are under review when one attends a concert or a UFO sightings. That would be nutty.

Yet, my pal, MJ insists, getting a shore-up from Vallee and others, that it’s the UFO observer who matters, not the UFO.

That kind of thinking borders on the insane.

It’s the UFO that we should be studying. Yes, observing people is fun and worthy of study by sociologists and/or psychologists. But for ufologists, it’s the UFO and only the UFO that should matter.

I know I keep harping on this, but I’ve run into trouble with an academic pal of mine because I insist that it’s the UFO we should be trying to explain, not the behavior of the UFO witness.

MJ is on the wrong track,. If he doesn’t amend his folly, he’ll end up as a ufological footnote or the punchline of a bad UFO joke.

RR

posted by RRRGroup at Friday, August 02, 2019

14 Comments:

  • It's easier to study people than objects that the world's militaries can't even catch. I'm interested in the psychology of some of these people and might buy the book, but we already know through other subjects how people react to unique experiences. It's important to know as another piece in the puzzle, but that's not the root cause. The UFO is what matters, not more humancentric analysis. I don't know how you get answers to an elusive external event if we think human reactions are more important...we don't think how humans react to volcanoes, dolphins, plants, space, etc, is more important than the subjects. I get it that writing another book about UFOs is tough since a lot has already been done going off very limited information, so I think Banias is doing a little puffery by selling his focus as more important...it allows him to get attention and maybe continue writing on the subject. Nothing wrong with that as a self promoter but the UFO is definitely what's in need of explanation.

    By Blogger Unknown, at Friday, August 02, 2019  

  • Unknown:

    on what grounds do you accuse Banias of "selling his focus as more important" than the investigation of the UFO itself? You're working from an isolated quotation second-hand (RR quotes Halperin who quotes Banias): the guiding principle quoted is for _the purposes of his book_, which focusses on the people who witness UFOs, investigate sightings, etc. It is not, in that sense, nor is it intended to be, explicitly, another attempt to add to attempted solutions of the mystery.

    By Blogger Bryan Sentes, at Friday, August 02, 2019  

  • -> It's easier to study people than objects that the world's militaries can't even catch <-

    *

    I like that, it's so true!...But also a UFO explanation is needed, More than ever..

    I'm reminded...If one was to bring up UFO in conversation, occasionally, you might get that funny look; A wee smile with a frown, suggesting; (Your not serious, are you?)

    That tells you right off, that UFO is not taken seriously, and needs to be, if the worlds militaries can't catch em:).............

    By Blogger Daniel, at Friday, August 02, 2019  

  • The problem, past and present, is that all that is left to investigate/question is the observer(s). The "UFO" is long gone, if it really existed in the first place, so the observer, or witness, is all that is left. And witness accounts are purely subjective rendering such observations wanting in most cases.

    I may be the exception, but when I go places I enjoy observing people since that is what I do for a living...there is always an underlining backstory that is hidden when people interact with one another.

    I know what you're getting at rich, but your "UFO" is non-existant by the time observers come forward. Even you in past post have chastised insane/spotty observations that lead to the conclusion that there was no way in hell that they saw a "UFO."

    Just read a few days ago that bright lights were seen in the night skies over Area 51! Are we to be shocked by such observations? Might as well report that trains were spotted at the local rail terminal.

    Yet the insanity marches on...

    By Blogger Tim Hebert, at Friday, August 02, 2019  

  • Bryan my assumption that he is trying to sell this view is from his quotes, interviews, and YouTube channel. He admits he is more interested in the cultural and anthropological affects of UFOs. I like some of his work, writing about paranormal subjects has been his job. He worked for Mufon and was pretty fed up with it too. His belief is UFOs change as we do, so people are the focus. I take all of that and see a guy that therefore has a career in this that pays the bills, that didn't get much out of investigating UFO reports, so he sees the focus of people being more important and accessible, and therefore he needs to push this view as being more important to sell future books, articles, and promote himself. This is not to dismiss his opinion as being invalid, but it appears he is trying to be more marketable to a general audience. That's fine, there is nothing wrong with that.

    Check his YouTube on UFO people. He can be a little hyper, not sure what caffeinated drink he imbibes...but he's a decent guy, I don't think he's hustling us and enjoy how he gets that we are to be wary, and that UFOs are likely more than the obvious answer.

    By Blogger Unknown, at Friday, August 02, 2019  

  • Unknown, I know Banias and his work. He hardly has "a career in this that pays the bills": he's gotten, as he jokes, "hundreds of dollars" from his book. He's an elementary school teacher in Winnipeg as is, I believe, his wife, and will remain so, as he has a mortgage to pay and two small mouths to feed and no, not even a ufological best-seller will do that.

    As to being marketable to a general audience...all I'll say is that the demand that Diane Pasulka's book _American Cosmic_ be made so gutted it of all that might have been worthwhile in the original, scholarly ms....

    By Blogger Bryan Sentes, at Friday, August 02, 2019  

  • Bryan, I'll agree, saying "career" is the wrong word. Freelance would be a better description, but I still stand by my opinion. I get the vibe from all I've seen and heard that he's trying to carve out a bigger place for himself. I like that he admits people are trying to make their way up the ufology influence ladder, and who you know and how bold you go is how you get your name out there--nothing new there. I wish him the best.

    I read Pasulka's book...It was a Dan Brown story mixed with bad timing for philosophical lectures and speculation. She hit a lot of singles, but didn't get any of the base runners home to score a run. Anyway that's another subject, and one that I would defer to others on.

    By Blogger Unknown, at Friday, August 02, 2019  

  • @Unknown "It's easier to study people than objects that the world's militaries can't even catch. I'm interested in the psychology of some of these people and might buy the book, but we already know through other subjects how people react to unique experiences." I´d like to know why some people have strange experiences and some have not (I think I´ve mentioned this before but I think skeptic is a person who has just as strange experiences as anyone, he just doesn´t get too excited and understands that the experience could be more plausibly explained by psychology and misperception and not by aliens...)

    @Daniel ".If one was to bring up UFO in conversation, occasionally, you might get that funny look; A wee smile with a frown, suggesting; (Your not serious, are you?)" Seriously, I think that could be a real UFO conspiracy, why the UFOs have become a joke and such an embarrassing subject in "serious" conversation.

    But let´s keep on, umm, speculating?

    By Blogger Jerry Cornelius, at Saturday, August 03, 2019  

  • My question is who is this MJ Banias? I have seen his name referenced a lot here...And never heard of him in other UFO circles until now.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Saturday, August 03, 2019  

  • Phil:

    MJ Banias is a pal of mine and beloved by academic Bryan Sentes and others in popular UFO circles.

    He's a vibrant, brilliant guy, making a mark among UFO cognoscenti.

    I reference him, as do others, because he presenting interesting video-casts on YouTube, and his book UFO People is a talk-about.

    You'll see others here who may not have been well-known in the UFO community but should be.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, August 03, 2019  

  • RR: RE that "beloved": In the name of full disclosure, Banias is an acquaintance/friend (can you have a friend you've never met in person?) with whom I've corresponded and whose webcast I've been a guest on; we're collaborating on a book _as much about our differences as agreements_. My first engagement with his thinking can be read at ye olde Skunkworksblog.

    Jerry Cornelius: I was just reading about the psychology of UFO and close encounter witnesses (in J Clark's _The UFO Book_ under the entry for the "Psychosocial Hypothesis, p. 503): what studies have been conducted have discovered nothing special about the witnesses, e.g., that they are Fantasy Prone Personalities.

    By Blogger Bryan Sentes, at Saturday, August 03, 2019  

  • Yes, Bryan, one can have a friend that one hasn't met in person.

    Read Montaigne's essay "On Friendship."

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, August 03, 2019  

  • @Bryan Sentes: That´s what I´ve understood too, that "typical" UFO witnesses (or experiencers) are not fantasy prone personalities...but maybe (I´m now wildly speculating and waving my hands) that explains they have such dull UFO encounters, those who have more imagination may have much more weirder experiences.... (Mmm, The UFO Book, I guess I have to check that out, sounds interesting...)

    By Blogger Jerry Cornelius, at Sunday, August 04, 2019  

  • @Jerry - The 'Herb Schirmer' encounter is a particularly interesting one as psychologists at the time determined him to be in some ways what was once termed 'Educationally Subnormal' and thus literally incapable of creating such a 'fantasy'.

    Schirmer's experience - a small-town cop on his own late at night who initially thought a bus or truck had left the road and whose subsequent career was destroyed after reporting the incident has notable similarities to PC Alan Godfrey's experience in Todmorden, West Yorkshire in 1980.

    Here's a link to Herb Schirmer recounting his UFO experience:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDw4gLxKt14

    By Blogger DrDee, at Tuesday, August 06, 2019  

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