UFO Conjectures

Wednesday, June 06, 2018

The Skeptic’s Mind-set

Copyright 2018, InterAmerica, Inc.
Readers here are familiar with my pal Zoam Chomsky and his atheistic UFO views.

And a few may be familiar with Gilles Fernandez’ anti-UFO views, preferring the IFO epithet: Identified Flying Objects.

And then there is Lance Moody, all but invisible lately, here.

These fellows are examples of skeptics, Chomsky whom I love, Moody a pal (I think), and Gilles, mon ami from France.

While I do not find any of their skeptical stances offensive, I do have caveats to their skeptical approach, not so much Zoam’s as the other two.

In the June 7, 2018 issue of The New York Review of Books is a review, by Marina  Warner of two books about Roman religions in the age(s) of the first Caesars, titles of which I’ll not note because few visiting here rarely read, and certainly not scholarly tomes.

But in Ms. Warner’s review, Holy Shape-Shifters, [Page34 ff], which you can find online, are some notes that apply, or should, to skeptical practitioners, especially when it comes to UFOs or Ufology.

Ms. Warner opens with a listing of Roman polytheism, that mimics the categories one finds in UFO lore, the various kinds of UFOs reported/sighted by witnesses: gods, goddesses, nymphs, divine heroes,, abstract virtues (appeared and disappeared).

And she cites first century B.C. scholar and writer “Varro [who] faced with the plethora of popular divinities, decided to square the circle, and proposed seeing the multiplicity of gods as a series of variations on a single divine principle.” (An observation not unlike one that might apply to ufology.)

And in noting one of the academic authors, Harriet I. Flower, Warner writes, “Flower prefers archaeological and historical evidence to literary narratives, and seems puzzlingly wary of using tales, especially literary ones, as sources.”

[This is not unlike Gilles Fernandez approach to UFO lore (reports of sightings and/or encounters.]

But Warner goes on to enlighten us to the reality: “Flower does, however, pass on a wild story from Pliny the Elder about the birth of Servius Tullius he legendary king of Rome.”

So, Ms. Flower does resort to tales when it suits her purpose(s)….not a bad thing by any means.

Warner also offers a juicy tale from Ovid (which you will find online at The NYRB in the review cited here.)

Warner states that such poems and works “deserve the attention of historians.”

My point? That while Gilles, Zoam, and maybe Lance eschew UFO tales, those tales do or can add to the eventual explanation of the enigmatic phenomenon (or whatever it is).

Gilles is currently trying to persuade readers of his Facebook UFO page that the Airship reports and stories from 1896/1897 are just that, stories, tales, concoctions or misrepresented observations.

While that's a skeptical method, it is not academic or scholarly.

Zoam, us you know, uses the Null Hypothesis to try and eliminate the “reality” of UFOs, and that approach has the patina of scholarship, but some of us find the Null Hypothesis as nutty as the idea that UFOs are ET craft.

Lance just hates UFO liars and foolishness altogether; not academic or scholarly, but an approach.

Skepticism needs as much discipline as UFO belief, belief being the essence of the review cited here, and belief an integral part of societal development, no matter how foolish it may seem to be.

So, God bless skeptics, especially those named here. I love them, each one, but don’t accept their “errant” approach to debunking UFOs. They don’t use scholarly rigor.

RR

27 Comments:

  • "Gilles is currently trying to persuade readers of his Facebook UFO page that the Airship reports "

    On a side note: There are not airship reports stricto sensu, but airship reports/tales vehiculated by newspaper articles. Dunno if the nuance is clear enough?

    As I "challenged", if such sightings and mainly the ones with crew and passengers were so numerous, I'm expecting it exist another historiographical materials than "newspapers": Personal letters, personal diaries or notes, etc. OUT the newspapers as motor or newspapers somewhere in the circle. I'm curious if someone have something to offer... :p

    I'm trying to persuade none because I have learned believers cant be persuaded. I'm only curious about this "enigma" and I have learned at this stage that there is none need to invoke "magic" entities, or genious inventors who have launched real airships to "crack" this 1896/97 enigma. It is an hobby, so OF COURSE I cant say "my" work is 100% rigorous (it's ufology, after all), simply because I made no money with it and then, I have few "ressources" to investigate.


    Anyway, I'm proud my article was translated in several languages and used here or there as counter-tons regarding this airship "mystery" the ufologists jumped in.

    Regards,

    Gilles

    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Wednesday, June 06, 2018  

  • Yes, Gilles, you have stirred up those who take issue with the Airship saga.

    It's a good antithesis you've provided to the belief meme that has taken hold of the stories.

    As for those who think the Airship reports do not belong inside UFO lore, I have to disagree.

    They fit nicely as part of the UFO myth (or reality).

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, June 06, 2018  

  • I hope you will enlight your readers about the hypothesis "I" proposed in my FB page, aka (a part of) the 1895 and toward the end of the "wave" airship imagery as "psychological warfare" due to the incoming war with Spain (in particulary regarding Cuba)...

    How many tales -when "witnesses" met the crew- mentioned the airships were on the way to bombard Cuba, etc ;)

    And how we noticed C.A. Smith airship saga by newspapers "stopped" in spring 1898 (aka when USA invaded Cuba).

    OK, I'm not sexy with my theories, but stop to believe it is simplistic. Contextualization is here a key to "crack" this enigma.

    Regards,

    Gilles

    By Blogger Gilles Fernandez, at Wednesday, June 06, 2018  

  • This comment has been removed by the author.

    By Blogger Yvan Defoy, at Wednesday, June 06, 2018  

  • Though I find myself agreeing with Moody often enough, he's too rigid a skeptic for me much of the time.

    His defense of Parabunk's refueling tanker explanation for the Coyne incident was based on nothing more, it seemed to me, than that he couldn't concede what was encountered is still unknown (even if unknown in this case doesn't at all mean ET). So he kept defending an explanation that had no substantive documentation or evidence to support it.

    Some of us with a skeptical bent are satisfied to accept that some cases are genuine unknowns (unknown not being equal to ET) because there's not enough data to make a correct identification (e.g., the Coyne incident). I count myself among that group.

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Wednesday, June 06, 2018  

  • Yes, PG...

    Your stance and comments in the Kevin Randle/Parabunk fiasco was the only salvation in the whole stupid episode.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Wednesday, June 06, 2018  

  • Dear PG;

    "The reliable cases are uninteresting and in the interesting cases are unreliable."

    "The best 'UFO' cases are utterly debunkable because they are composed of utter bunk."

    Just because a person tells a "UFO" story doesn't mean some significant event has occurred. The IDEA that it has is the very heart of the "UFO" myth and delusion.

    Reporting the mere failure to identify--and visually oriented and story-telling apes are prone to telling stories of their misperceptions--is not only insignificant but extremely foolish. Hence the Disbelief factor to "UFO" reports in society.

    And fence-sitting is acquiescence to knowing nothing, if not superstition and antiscience.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Friday, June 08, 2018  

  • Zoam...

    You kill me.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Friday, June 08, 2018  

  • "The reliable cases are uninteresting and the interesting cases are unreliable."

    Love you too, man. But how hard is it to have a definite opinion on an inconsequential "UFO" story? If there's enough of a story on which to actually make a determination and have an opinion.

    In my long experience I've found that if a poster is not a hardened skeptic, then he is still infected, however mildly, with the antiscientific "UFO" myth.

    Another way of saying what I said to PG, as I've said many times before, is that the entire mass of "UFO" reports, tens of thousands over a century, has been wholly inconsequential. There are no more real "UFOs" in 2018 as there were real "airships" in 1896, or at any time between.

    Subtract the very IDEA "UFO" from the world. All reports, all books, magazine and newspaper stories, all images from print, photos and film. Erase it all from memory.

    The world would be the same. Not just essentially, but the very same.

    This is another expression of the Null hypothesis. There are two possible worlds: The extraordinary world has "UFO" reports of real "UFOs" since the existence of real "UFOs" would be extraordinary. The ordinary world has "UFO" reports but NO real "UFOs" since it's just the world we're given, the world as it is. Except for that subjective reality, the IDEA "UFO", a mere thought, these worlds are identical.

    By the fundamental law of science, the law of parsimony, which world is the most probable, most likely, and most plausible? I think the answer is clear.

    And then we have Psychosocial hypothesis that explains why people believe in the culturally ingrained FALSE IDEA "UFO" and how it is expressed in "UFO" reports.

    There just aren't any real "UFOs." There never were.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Saturday, June 09, 2018  

  • See my most recent post about the real world and UFOs, Zoamy.

    It isn't far from your views expressed here and ubiquitously.

    But my position rests inside the maxim UFOs exist. (What they are is open to question but their reality is not.)

    Luv ya, of course, you irrational rascal.

    RR

    By Blogger RRRGroup, at Saturday, June 09, 2018  

  • @Zoam
    What your unshakeable, rigid 'scientific rationalism' fails to take account of is that the phenomenon IS an irrational/paranormal one that exhibits elements of the 'Trickster' archetype, deliberately evading and confounding any attempts at definitive categorisation in accordance with the 'Laws of Physics' (as we understand them) and which they seem to constantly flout - as many credible & experienced military & civilian witnesses have attested to, irrespective of your complete, blanket dismissal of such claims.

    Similarly, the in-built absurdities of many 'High Strangeness' accounts (as noted by Vallee & others) seem almost designed to undermine the credibility of both incident and witnesses alike, leading both skeptics & 'serious' ufologists to dismiss all such cases as simple 'hoaxes' - this despite many of them exhibiting levels of sophistication & complexity difficult to achieve or indeed explain were this the case. (From the Kera UFO to the Imjärvi encounter and on to the recent F/A-18 Hornet intercept footage)

    What Vallee, Jose Caravaca & others agree on - including the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program - is that the phenomenon is based primarily on DECEPTION. It's NOT what you think it is, nor is it necessarily what you think it ISN'T.

    In skeptically dismissing the absurd/irrational High Strangeness 'hoaxes' (which Vallee & Hynek eventually agreed were perhaps some of the most significant cases & key to understanding the true nature of the phenomenon) as well as military/intelligence testimony & footage as 'inconclusive' you are perhaps merely fulfilling the intended aim of the deliberately deceptive 'intelligence' Vallee, Caravaca & others assert is behind it.

    Forget about UFOs - it's all 'garbage' & 'chasing phantoms'. The other side of the coin (in this simplistic but extreme binary) are the ETH 'believers' who have been similarly seduced and deceived into accepting the simple, 'straightfoward' answer of 'Space Aliens'.

    Meanwhile, as we all have a good laugh about the deluded idiots who fall for all that 'Ufo nonsense' or the gullible halfwits who channel 'Galactic High Command' with their tales of Greys, Reptillians & Nordics from Zeta Reticuli or wherever - military & intelligence witnesses CONTINUE to testify & display evidence (whether you accept it or not) of inexplicable things in our airspace they have both observed and attempted to intercept doing 'absurd', impossible things (including disabling nuclear weapons) while ALWAYS managing to stay just beyond the reach of our technology & comprehension.

    The seemingly ridiculous & comical (often dismissed as not worthy of serious scrutiny) has often been a successful smokescreen for more sinister activities - from the Trojan Horse to Jimmy Savile.

    There are indeed more things in heaven & earth than are dreamt of in your (rationalist) philosophy Zoam.

    By Blogger DrDee, at Saturday, June 09, 2018  

  • Dear Zoam,
    It sure seems to me that most self-identified skeptics are as dogmatic as the believers (whether it be about Bigfoot, ghosts, time travel, fairies, remote viewing, dimensional beings, ETs, etc., etc.).
    Skeptics sometimes will go to great lengths using the most contorted "logic" (that nobody in their right mind would accept) to explain away something that someone else has labeled anomalous.
    I am skeptical at heart (you'll never sell me a used car), but nevertheless accept that some incidents labeled as mysterious or anomalous involve true unknowns. And by "true unknown" I mean there simply isn't enough information or data from the event to fully explain what happened. Therefore, everything anyone (believer or skeptic) claims about what it was is just a wild ass guess until some hard evidence can be brought forth.
    Believers always will jump in to claim it's an alien spacecraft. Skeptics always will jump in to claim it's the moon or Venus (or a refueling tanker), even when that explanation is as patently ridiculous or unsubstantiated as claiming it was a beam ship from the Andromeda Galaxy.
    It seems to me that UFO believers and UFO skeptics are locked in a perpetual unwinnable war. Meanwhile, I think I’d much rather continue to be Switzerland.

    Yours truly, Purrlie

    By Blogger purrlgurrl, at Saturday, June 09, 2018  

  • "See my most recent post about the real world and UFOs, Zoamy. It isn't far from your views expressed here and ubiquitously.

    "But my position rests inside the maxim UFOs exist. (What they are is open to question but their reality is not.)"

    That is a statement of and is evidence of faith, not agnosticism, since over a century of reports have failed to produce even one real "UFO." You're assuming the answer when there is ZERO veracious evidence of any thing.

    Sorry, Rich, the existence or nonexistence of "UFOs" of any kind is the entire debate, and the persistent belief in "UFOs" despite the utter lack of a "UFO" presence--the unreality of "UFOs"--is the complete subject of scientific interest.

    The physical sciences have already determined that there are no real "UFOs" of any kind. It's left to social psychologist to describe why people continue to believe in the "UFO" myth.

    "Luv ya, of course, you irrational rascal." LOL! And I'm "irrational."

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Sunday, June 10, 2018  

  • "What your unshakeable, rigid 'scientific rationalism' fails to take account of is that the phenomenon IS an irrational/paranormal one that exhibits elements of ...."

    There is no "UFO" phenomenon. A lot of things in the sky are the stimuli for "UFO" reports but not one of them is some extraordinary thing unknown to the world, not that can be shown in any way.

    And how could Dee or anyone possibly know whatever would follow ....? They Can't!

    That would be the entire point. No one knows any more about real "UFOs" of any kind than anyone else. All we have are thousands of multifarious reports spanning more than a century.

    That in itself is evidence that if we were dealing with something real, it would hardly be one thing. And certainly not some one thing practicing an impossible deception. The entire idea is laughable, nonfalsifiable, so unscientific. It's antiscientific in fact because it's fraudulent science-like posturing that mocks the scientific method. One might as well claim that "UFOs" are "Unicorns From Outer Space," or that they're Psychic Santas making their rounds in parallel universes.

    Not only is it an intellectual abdication, mere hand-waving, it can't be shown to be true or untrue, and it's completely unnecessary. There's a much simpler answer!

    What's amusing is that anyone would take this 1970s new-age space-cadet pablum seriously. Dee, I doubt very much that Jacques V believes his own nonsense. Why should you?

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Sunday, June 10, 2018  

  • @zoam Didn't really expect any other response to be honest (you do only have the ONE response after all) and insisting Jacques Vallee somehow regards his own research as 'nonsense' is just a ludicrous and laughable LIE. If you'd bothered to read his stuff you'd know it's the antithesis of anything proferring 'new age' mysticism or 'space-cadet' ETH answers to these things.

    He discussed & reasserted his views on the phenomenon in several hour long interviews in the wake of the publication of the new edition of 'Passport to Magonia'. He's also recently given a talk on the composition of retrieved materials:

    https://www.dailygrail.com/2018/05/jacques-vallee-and-the-mystery-of-the-alien-alloys/

    Of course you'll no doubt completely ignore this & assert that 'it's all garbage' once more without even looking at it.

    *yawn*

    By Blogger DrDee, at Monday, June 11, 2018  

  • This all seems like so much "polishing the brass on the Titanic" ... Instead of arguing for or against, seek out weirdness or make it happen, play around with it, test it's capabilities. Skeptic or proponent? Any point of view in a more active approach to the fringes will add to the growing body of knowledge and experience, a lot more than endless debates about nuances that will fall short of whatever the realities are. Stop talking in circles, start acting. Just do it.

    By Blogger Unknown, at Tuesday, June 12, 2018  

  • >> Vallee writes quite seriously about matters such as

    Rosicrucianism: They claim that their 'Ancient Wisdom' is thousands of years old, but there is absolutely no proof of that. "I find their documents to be an interesting spiritual complement to my scientific training. Every month I receive a set of course material through the mail. It includes both theoretical reading and instructions for simple rituals, promising insight into higher realities" (Vallee, p. 39). He later explains that the Rosicrucian order he belongs to is "AMORC, which is headquartered in San Jose." If you've ever seen that Rosicrucian Museum with the awesome mummies interspersed with cheesy claims of ancient mysteries, that's the group he was talking about. When I was a kid, they used to regularly have ads on the back page of comic books. Hynek was also interested in Rosicrucianism (p. 233).

    Astrology: Vallee, and later Hynek, became friends with Michel and Francoise Gauquelin, who were attempting to put astrology on a scientific basis. "Yesterday Hynek went back to see the Gauquelins to discuss astrology and destiny" (p. 341). Vallee claims he was responsible for his publisher Regnery accepting Gauquelin's book on astrology, The Cosmic Clocks. In the early days of CSICOP, there was a big stink when the skeptics challenged Gauquelin's "Mars Effect" data, which apparently was (in that one instance) correct. However, the correlations he claimed to find could not be replicated.

    Mystical and psychic realms: "In recent discussions with Hynek, I pointed out that the saucer question may well be part of a complex series of scientific realities, but it also plunges deep into mystical and psychic theories. I found him very receptive to this idea" (p. 88).

    Alchemy, elementals, homunculi.......seriously!!
    As for myself, I cannot see how any intelligent person can, upon clear reflection, take any of those subjects seriously...."

    http://badufos.blogspot.com/2012/02/jacques-vallee-j-allen-hynek-and.html

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Tuesday, June 12, 2018  

  • So we see that Vallee, the Rosicrusian, is not only the typical paranormalist new-age nutball, he's also a common "UFO" conspiracy theorist, as well as the worst kind of cherry-picking, misrepresenting "ancient astronaut" hack as one can imagine.

    >> [Jason] Colavito asks rhetorically: "Mr. Vallée, why did you repeat the same faulty translations, fabrications, and errors from Passport to Magonia in 1969 to Wonders in the Sky in 2009 until I finally caught you, all [the] while holding yourself out as a scrupulous and rigorous investigator?<< Really. What a Fraud!

    And now Dee directs us to Vallee and "mystery metals" as if Vallee's bad act wasn't laughably pathetic enough already! Pieces of "flying saucers!" (Previously exhibited by PT Barnum and later in the Museum of the Hard-to-Believe!) LOL

    And the reader might notice that Dee never endeavors to make any actual arguments in any of the topics discussed, he merely repeats his baseless claims, and his credulous beliefs in Vallee's otherworldly, occultish, pseudoscientific nonsense.

    http://badufos.blogspot.com/2016/03/

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Tuesday, June 12, 2018  

  • @Zoam

    Oooh look - Zoam's going on about Rosicrucianism, Astrology, Mystical realms etc. etc.

    'And the reader might notice that he never endeavors to make any actual arguments in any of the topics discussed' Well I'm discussing the subject of this blog - UFOs. You're NOT. (obviously - since 'it's all garbage')

    'he merely repeats his baseless claims.' You do indeed. And using analogies to undermine other research isn't valid (you've said repeatedly). Einstein wouldn't accept & tried repeatedly to disprove quantum entanglement. Has no bearing whatsoever on the rest of his research.

    And the CSICOP/Gauquelin example is a BAD one Zoam:

    'Harvard professor of biostatistics and CSICOP fellow Marvin Zelen proposed a simplified version of the original Gauquelin study which he subsequently performed with the assistance of CSICOP chairman and professor of philosophy Paul Kurtz and George Abell, a UCLA astronomer. In order to get the result they wanted, the trio had to commit a total of six statistical blunders, which are discussed in detail in the article The True Disbelievers: Mars Effect Drives Skeptics to Irrationality by former CSICOP fellow Richard Kammann. Proper analysis showed that the new study actually supported the Gauquelin effect.'

    'Skeptics' and their confirmation biases - er, I mean scrupulous 'scientific rigour' of course.

    Don't ya just love 'em. Hahahahahahahahaha

    By Blogger DrDee, at Wednesday, June 13, 2018  

  • "...Rosicrucianism, Astrology, Mystical realms etc."

    It's your hero Jacques Vallee going on about his belief in occultist "cosmic consciousness" Rosicrucianism, paranoid government conspiracy theories, and simply stupid "UFO" presentist revisionist "ancient astronauts." What a mishmash of nonsense for a person to believe when it's all so demonstrably baseless and phony!

    This the same Jacques Vallee who advocates the antiscientific "interdimensional intelligence" crackpottery for explaining a century of "UFO" reports, when the obvious is staring him in the face. But then the obvious wouldn't sell "UFO" books to credulous rubes. And selling junky books to make money is Jacques Vallee's only objective.

    All the while Vallee pretends to possess some impossible "secret knowledge" about "UFOs." That is hysterically funny! Jacques doesn't know any more than the rest of us--actually considerably less than some of us. And his pretense is buffoonish. Certainly Jacques must realize his "UFO Expert" act is that of a sad clown and nothing more. But playing the buffoon for rubes is small cost to pay when it helps to sell books.

    This "ultraterrestrial" crackpottery isn't about anything in the real world--where people making "UFO" reports reside--it only exists in Vallee's fantasy world of derivative pulp science-fiction! It's not even derived from real science-fiction, it's directly derived from and is composed of the stuff of pulp sci-fi fantasy, the sort of action-adventure soap opera in outer space with occultish cosmic mysteries thrown in to give it a twist of weirdness. Vallee is clearly on the side of the new-age spiritualist nutbags of ufxxlery along with Rael, Billy Meier, Adamski, George Van Tassel, the Unarians, and other utterly cracked-pots of the "Contactee" variety.

    And as if this all wasn't obvious to anyone who knows the "UFO" subject, it's further evidenced by the fact that Vallee's fantastical nonsense is nonfalsifiable. It's not even science! Which our squirming "Dr Dee" refuses to even acknowledge.

    Squirm On, Dee!

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Thursday, June 14, 2018  

  • @Zoam More ludicrous ramblings about, as you say, 'nutbags' none of whom I've either mentioned or take the slightest notice of. You can't SERIOUSLY be equating Billy Meier, the Uranians et al with Drs. Vallee & Hynek hahahahahahahaha!

    Come on Zoam, you're getting a bit desperate now.

    I can counter anything & everything you say by cherry picking the appropriate bit of evidence to back up my viewpoint as you do yours but I mean seriously - what is the point?

    We know you think it's all 'garbage' but you're NEVER gonna convince me that the testimony of credible military/intelligence personnel or astronomers & physicists is the same as hoaxing 'nutjobs' channelling 'Intergalactic Star Command' & whatever nonsense is doing the rounds and never will, so give it a rest, eh?

    Many of the major theories of 'mainstream science' are nonfalsifiable too - the 'Many Worlds Theory', 'String Theory' etc. etc.

    And nobody's 'squirming' you weird, power crazed nutjob. Is that what you do it for?

    Just bizarre & tedious in equal measure.

    Get some therapy!

    By Blogger DrDee, at Saturday, June 16, 2018  

  • Still squirming, Dee!

    "It's your hero Jacques Vallee going on about his belief in occultist "cosmic consciousness" Rosicrucianism, paranoid government conspiracy theories, and simply stupid "UFO" presentist revisionist "ancient astronauts." What a mishmash of nonsense for a person to believe when it's all so demonstrably baseless and phony!"

    The "Ancient Wisdom" of the "Ancient Mystical Order" of the Rosicrucians. I remember their ads in the back of AMAZING Stories magazine, sometimes even the entire back cover. You know, AMAZING, composed of stories of lost civilizations, ancient astronauts, demons haunting the hollow earth, spiritualism and "flying saucers!"

    And Vallee's "interdimensional intelligence" baloney is directly derived from this very same nonsense.

    Dee, What's it like to be unable to defend your claims? To be unable to make a logical factual argument? You can't refute even one bit of my facts and argument because it's all true.

    I'm very much equating Vallee, Hynek and their spiritualist religious "interdimensional intelligence" hypothesis with other spiritualist religious "UFO" nutbags. It's perfectly obvious to anyone who knows the subject. Even the wiki article on the IDH makes its association with spiritualism clear.

    What part of Vallee and Hynek being admitted spiritualists isn't clear to you? And Vallee is nothing if not a conspiracy theorist and "ancient astronaut" advocate. Both Vallee and Hynek have admitted that they studied astronomy because they wanted to oppose the consensus view. What does that reveal about them?

    You're still appealing to authority, other victims of the "UFO" myth, spiritualists, the reality challenged, charlatans and frauds. And you just had give us another tortured twist to falsification as a phony justification for continued belief in the IDH. Hilarious, Dee, the subject is real-life people seeing real lights in the sky--it's not arcane speculative astrophysics!

    There's a really simple reason that people get excited about seeing things in the sky they don't understand and consider the event worthy of reporting: They're entirely predisposed by the culturally supplied "UFO" myth. The PSH for "UFO" reports is real social science. The IDH is worthless. It doesn't explain anything. It's nonfalsifiable so is not science of any kind. And its only promoters are admitted contrarians, paranoid and spiritualist "UFO" Believers.

    That's the point again, Dee. Get it now?

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Saturday, June 16, 2018  

  • @Zoam Why can't you accept credible, intelligent people have a different take on the phenomenon - why do you have this necessity to try and browbeat all opposers of your stance into submission & 'make them squirm' you loon? I think you've got 'issues' don't you?

    You can make as many analogies as you want to whatever 'nutjob' beliefs you choose. I don't subscribe to any 'Rosicrucian', 'Ancient Astronaut' or whatever hokum you want to try & associate me with, none of which I've mentioned or have ever taken the slightest notice of.

    Many intelligent, credible & rational (unlike you) scientists, technicians, pilots, astronauts, military & intelligence personnel take a different view to you - why can't you just accept that instead of having a fit of thundering apoplexy asserting you're right & everyone else is wrong?

    You haven't given us your 'comment' on the Voronezh Incident yet.

    Hang on, don't tell me - 'it's all garbage'!

    By Blogger DrDee, at Monday, June 18, 2018  

  • Just a general note to (hopefully) conclude this fruitless back & forth.

    The 'null hypothesis' beloved of Zoam is of course a skeptic's wet dream since it's a 'heads I win, tails you lose' type argument in that anything deemed 'unlikely' is discarded as 'false'.

    ALL anomalous events are UNLIKELY - that's why they're ANOMALIES ffs!

    By Blogger DrDee, at Tuesday, June 19, 2018  

  • Squirming and whining now too, Dee!

    "Credible, intelligent.... phenomenon?"

    Who are these "credible, intelligent?" What "phenomenon?" Like all the rest of your claims, you can't even show that there is a "phenomenon!"

    "Analogies"

    These aren't analogies. Vallee and Hynek were at heart spiritualists! For all their "scientific" appeals, they were fundamentally spiritualists and contrarians, antiscientists!

    We're not talking about you, Dee, we're talking about the charlatans, Vallee and Hynek, whose "Interdimensional intelligence" spiritualist religious explanation for "UFO" reports you foolishly advocate.

    Then another appeal to "scientists, technicians, pilots, astronauts, military & intelligence personnel."

    That's the appeal to authority combined with the fairy-tale factor: All these "authorities" tell "UFO" stories of long ago and far away, but none of them really ever happened or they've been thoroughly debunked a dozen times already!

    "Voronezh"

    Another tale told by teenagers, reported by TASS, which even Russian investigators dismissed.

    "fruitless"

    Only if Dee refuses to consider the damning spiritualist origin of the IDH--the entire point. I don't think it's fruitless for my readers!

    "anything deemed 'unlikely' is discarded as 'false'"

    Haven't you learned anything, Dee? Even the "least likely" is not "false."

    So after weeks of schooling on Popperianian Demarcation theory, I give you a a very big "F."

    Now stop your whining.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Tuesday, June 19, 2018  

  • @Zoam anyone who disagrees is 'squirming & whining'.

    What an utter prick you are.

    'The most basic error of the 'null hypothesis' lies in mistaking the aim of a scientific investigation to be a decision, rather than a cognitive evaluation'.

    Indeed.

    I.e. 'There are NO UFOs' (a categorical imperative rather than a hypothesis) all testimony & evidence refuting this is thus 'false'.

    I'll just take your approach in future Zoam - ignore everything you say & declare it all 'utter garbage'.

    By Blogger DrDee, at Thursday, June 21, 2018  

  • "anyone who disagrees is 'squirming & whining'"

    No, just those who are always dancing around, ignoring the fact that their claims are empty and worthless. Like the silly "Interdimensional intelligence" hypothesis.

    More squirming from Dee. Now he's trying to tell us that science is just a matter of psychology--and not the objective facts of the world. It's the failure of hard science to produce real "UFOs" of any kind that is the fundamental problem here--not the fact that there just aren't any real "UFOs" to begin with. Brilliant, Dee!

    And how new-agey is that? We live in a subjective reality, huh, Dee? What have I told you from the start? We've heard it all already, and your act is no better than any of the other rationalizations for continued belief in the "UFO" myth that we've heard from dozens of other online cranks for decades. I make definite decisions based on evidence everyday. I may consider competing alternatives but I definitely make a decision based on all the evidence, even if that decision is tentative.

    As if determining the facts of the world--the nonexistence of real "UFOs"--wasn't a process of cognitive deliberation. Give us a Break! Go find another arcane quote to twist to your antiscientific "UFO" believing agenda. And how did any of this produce a real "UFO" of any kind? It didn't. It was just another excuse for ad hominem, the refuge of nasty online believers.

    By Blogger zoamchomsky, at Saturday, June 23, 2018  

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