Jose Caravaca offers more about his "Distortion Theory"
Copyright 2018, Jose Antonio Caravaca
UFO: "cognitive layers" that
prevent seeing the forest
Close encounters with UFOs behave like "psychedelic"
events provoked by our non-voluntary psychic immersion in an expanded reality,
which undergoes modifications/alterations by our mere presence.
And it is that the witnesses of the anomalies, when interfering
in this "mental field", induced by an external agent, that tries to
establish a bridge between both universes, constructs, without pretending it,
as effect of its immersion in this new state, a species of "screen"
that is placed in the threshold of both dimensions.
Containing physical and psychic parts, mixed and developed in a
complex plot of "oneiric" character, composed of archetypal,
folkloric or cultural ingredients of the witnesses, but developed in a
distorted way.
Therefore, even having entered a new state of consciousness, the
witness of the anomalies is "suggested" by his own mental
baggage/information. His fears, hopes, longings, frustrations, illusions,
anxieties, etc. can be seen reflected in this "screen" that in an
improvised way stands, before the eyes of the witness, as a mental construction
-- as a border between both realities.
These episodes, except for the visual part, are identical to
those described by visionaries, mystics and shamans from different cultures.
Even some mental illnesses could provoke intense access to this expanded
reality. And like the witnesses, the patients, not knowing what is happening,
can be induced to madness or to a wide range of psychic disorders (but because
of his own confusion).
There are probably two ways of accessing this psychic universe: through
direct access, through the practice of mental techniques, the so-called altered
states of consciousness, or, on the contrary, through the bridge that establishes,
in certain circumstances, an external agent. Although what is truly complex is
to discern how we can access this expanded reality, without interfering with
it, creating "cognitive layers" that prevent us from seeing the end
of the tunnel.
JAC
posted by RRRGroup at
Thursday, October 18, 2018
13 Comments:
"Therefore, even having entered a new state of consciousness, the witness of the anomalies is "suggested" by his own mental baggage/information. His fears, hopes, longings, frustrations, illusions, anxieties, etc. can be seen reflected in this "screen" that in an improvised way stands, before the eyes of the witness, as a mental construction -- as a border between both realities."
The above is the crux of Jose's problem with his theory. This suggests that one's mental state, the more abnormal or maladaptive, is more prone to be influenced by the "external agent." This is a serious flaw in the theory, IMHO, as cognitive issues that may be organic in nature that is the driving force of the episodes.
What is the percentage of a given population that has such an experience? What is the breakdown of those that have a a documented psychiatric diagnosis, undocumented versus that of a group that present with no cognitive issues?
Jose provides a good number of cases, but what of current cases that can be looked at in detail?
I applaud Jose's efforts, but merely suggest that more needs to be looked at regarding non-paranormal etiologies.
By
Tim Hebert, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
Tim:
You state "This suggests that one's mental state, the more abnormal or maladaptive, is more prone to be influenced by the "external agent." This is a serious flaw in the theory."
It's hardly a serious flaw but the key, I think, to what is perceived and how it is perceived.
While neurological (biological flaws) may bring about what one perceives, it is the affect on one's mental state by that biologic flaw that completes the perception.
Sensory data is not a lone factor in perception. The whole procedure of perception, from the sense input via a biologic means (eyesight) to the mental process in needed to complete the "transaction."
It's the body/mind argument, defined by Descartes (and others).
I don't know how well-read you are in the vicissitudes of perception but I feel there is a lack of knowledge on your part about how perception, the brain, and consciousness work, in tandem.
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
"I don't know how well-read you are in the vicissitudes of perception but I feel there is a lack of knowledge on your part about how perception, the brain, and consciousness work, in tandem."
Of course, fall to the lowest common denominator which is the trait of UFology: the appeal to your own authority. But yes, I'll play along, and do understand the "vicissitudes" as you put it.
I noticed that you did not address the quote that I had highlighted, at least not in depth, which my comment seemed to irritate you. You do understand the vicissitudes of ORGANIC natures affecting the brain's relations with cognition/perception
?
I also made comment that Jose's sampling of cases may be biased based on "old" cases or outright myths that have been perpetuated over time. What of "new" data to add in the mix?
Could those that are readily influenced by an "external agent" be merely a fraction of the population? What about the majority of the population that may not be subjected to such forces?
Yes Rich, stupid dumb ass questions from one lacking the "vicissitudes", but relevant for coming to some true understanding of what Jose proposes.
By
Tim Hebert, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
Thank you very much for your interest in my writings Tim.
Think one thing, if they were only, and exclusively "neurological (biological flaws)" , the phenomenon fueled by internet (as promoted by the psychosocial theory in its psychic contagions) would be today extended by the streets and cities. However, this does not happen. Why? Our beloved external agent has some answers...
JAC
By
jacarav@ca, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
Hello,
Two questions (the second one, next time) to Senior Caravaca.
1) If José's theory is correct, why the "external agent" or the external Intelligence (decline as you want), with such a sooooooooooo awesome power to distort our mind, is not distorting enough in order none cue or element remaining and then the "ufologists detecting "them"? And then "them" to remain totaly hidden, anonymous?
I suppose a new ad hoc element must be add to its non parcimonious theory: They like to play with us, but they seem totally "beated" / "discovered" by ufologists, like José...
Regards,
Gilles.
By
Gilles Fernandez, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
While I await your reply to my last comment, may I ask your opinion as to those suffering from schizophrenia?
Utilizing Jose's theory, is a schizophrenic and/or schizoaffective, more likely to be exposed to an "external agent" as that of the general population? Of course the answer is yes and no based on the term external being the surrounding environment/milieu. No being that the malady is an internal disorder effecting the brain. A good example of the "vicissitudes" of the relationship of brain function, perception, consciousness and overall cognitive functioning.
The above would mean a biological "internal agent." Would it not?
Again, I supply a subset of the population for Jose's consideration...and there are many more subsets for the offering. What of the normal function brain? This population makes up the largest percentage. How does this add to the mix with Jose's theory.
I have a very hard time accepting a paranormal influence when there are a plethora of other reality based agents for consideration.
By
Tim Hebert, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
Gilles' haste to impose his ideas on mine prevents him from reading my writings in detail. I have never spoken that the external agent wanting to remain hidden, disguised or camouflaged. The "Distortion" is not a process of concealment. The psyche of the witnesses when interacting with this external agent, they provoke the distortion, the only thing that this unknown operator does, is to induce certain type of beliefs, but always based on aspects already fomented in the culture, mythology, human sociology..
The external agent arises from a portion of cognitive reality ignored by our senses in their ordinary states.
(and by the way I rarely use the word intelligence to refer to the external agent)
I also appreciate your interest in my ideas...
best regards
By
jacarav@ca, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
Tim....(and Gilles):
You fellows are a little up tight about Jose's "theory" -- which Gilles is just jealous about.
Tim, the matter of perception, consciousness, memory, neurological quirks, and on, and on are often presented here with specific references: quotations intact and plentiful from experts, past and present....not my "authority."
I need, from you, when you cite the biological motif, some reference source that causes you to believe your view prevails.
You know my views (or should by now) that schizophrenia is not, necessarily a obtuse mental condition or disease, not an "insanity" as such, but a misunderstood, perhaps, confluence of input that a patient has or is receiving and trying to present that input to others make that "input" appear to be a madness, when it is merely an incoherent interpretation by someone who has been confronted by another or other reality, unable to communicate exactly what he or she has actually perceived.
This is where Jose's theory is interesting. It's approaching that idea -- a misunderstood or mis-communicated perception of a strange reality that has imposed itself on a person....why or how needs to be answered.
You are slogged in your personal work-related milieu I think. not desiring to dig deep into what Freud, Jung, Dennett, and others have been addressing of late.
Let me know your sources, so your "authority" doesn't prevail, just as I try not to let mine prevail, despite you seeing it otherwise.
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
Rich, up tight? I initially made a simple observation keying in a a portion of Jose's article which despite your thinking I still view as a flaw. BTW, my initial comment applauded Jose's work as I'm well aware that he has been working on his theory for sometime...I don't believe that he came to his mechanisms and conclusions overnight. As I've always stated on your site, I don't particularly like the paranormal tint to his "external agent." But, it's his theory and Jose can develop it as he pleases.
Schizophrenia and the effects on the structure of the brain:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28415873
I provided the above link and there are many more based on actual studies. These structural abnormalities have been know for decades which means you would and should have been aware regardless of our discussion.
That you use schizophrenia as a possible model for Jose's theory is telling on your part. Yes I do slog through my work related milieu which a certain percentage of the patient load are paranoid schizophrenics who possess a "different" point of view as to the construct of reality...go figure.
"..not desiring to dig deep into what Freud, Jung, Dennett, and others have been addressing of late.."
Yes, all of them interesting in their own right, in their own era...but they are dead and new ideas and models of consciousness and cognition have been developed. Some utilizing key aspects of those you have mentioned."
I close with the most relevant portion of your last comment: "This is where Jose's theory is interesting. It's approaching that idea -- a misunderstood or mis-communicated perception of a strange reality that has imposed itself on a person....why or how needs to be answered."
I too have attempted to focus via my comments on the why and how and the methodology utilized to find those answers.
By
Tim Hebert, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
Tim:
Jose's theory opens the door to a possible explanation for some UFO events, as you know.
I like that it spurs our (yours and mine) kind of dialogue.
My view of schizophrenia is tainted (or enhanced, rather) by Foucault's observations and the history of demonic possession.
Madness, through the ages is fascinating, to me (and you too, I imagine). And it presents an opportunity to see it as explaining some UFO (and paranormal) events.
There is an ongoing, and up-to-date argument between Dennett and his opponents that impacts the discussion.
I'd try to say a little removed from the vagaries of that debate as it is complex and unresolvable it seems to me.
But Jose's "theory" appears, to me, to be on to something, as it colludes with Vallee's views (and even John Keel's somewhat).
The status of reality is impacted by so many things that the situation allows for conjecture and rumination.
But it requires much reading -- almost too much reading -- to get to the nub(s) of the argument(s).
I get the impression that you, like my old pal Paracletus, find your source material online, and not amongst the current literature or "review" sources for the literature.
That's okay, but a little iffy, even though I use Wikipedia more often I should.
And to cut my rambling here, let me say that my view of schizophrenics is hardly orthodox, and wasn't when I approached the topic for an Abnormal Psychology class I was honored to moderate for a semester and a half at college when the instructor died of a heart attack.
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
Rich, fair enough...
But, I don't rely on Wikipedia, the link provided was from a credible government site...NIH.
BTW, I access all studies via on-line journal searches via work...a benefit since I work in a teaching hospital. So my thinking, whether one likes it or not, is based on looking at scientific studies/research. True, some studies are worthless (eye of the beholder), but some are very intriguing.
But enough for now. I'm drinking a bottle of Guinness tonight...maybe two.
By
Tim Hebert, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
Me, I just had a piece of cake and a cup of decaf coffee...neither helps my thinking.
RR
By
RRRGroup, at Thursday, October 18, 2018
My explanation is far more mundane than this.
People perceive these events as hallucinations due to the presence of electro-magnetic fields which produce the lights we call UFOs. Their preconceptions influences what they see, hear, feel and sometimes smell since their brains cannot process the effects without some frame or reference and presently that reference is that of alien beings and medical experiments. Previous generations of "abductees" and "contactees" saw different things since they had different expectations and frames of reference.
You also do not need to add layers of reality, other dimensions or anything else to the equation since it is known that certain frequencies of EM radiation (specifically forms of microwaves) have been able to induce images on test subjects in experiments which I believe were done by the US military in the 1970s or 1980s.
The fields are produced by large-scale triboluminessence deep in the earth, a phenomenon which has been reproduced in laboratories when rocks are subjected to enormous pressure. Coloured lights form above the surface of the rocks which are like miniature UFOs in their behaviour and appearance. Some will shoot around at high speeds, change direction suddenly and merge together, all classic descriptors of UFOs.
Perhaps the most compelling reason I follow this line of thinking is found in the on-going observations of scientists in the Norwegian valley of Hessdalen, where UFO activity has been studied for around 30 years now. They may not call the lights they observe UFOs, but that is essentially what they are.
So your theory does not need to have layered realities in order to still work as you say it does. All it takes is what we know of previously unrelated phenomenon and put them together in a new way. This follows the principle of Occam's Razor to a "T".
By
rroffel, at Wednesday, October 24, 2018
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